Extreme Makeover

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Okay, ladies, it seems like we're all so busy and I feel like I hardly catch up with you except for when we're recording the podcast. So can we just do. Can we do life updates this morning? [00:00:13] Speaker B: Sure. Well, I know I have been crazy busy. Now that it is beautiful fall season, I have been working on getting our fall line out for the family business. And so my house smells amazing because I'm like doing all of, like the fall candle scents. And so that has been really great, really exciting, really tiring, but. But that's kind of what has consumed my life recently. [00:00:35] Speaker A: So is it a. Is it a good blend of smells then since it's all kind of seasonal, [00:00:39] Speaker B: or does it is. I learned the hard way I don't try to do multiple scents at the same time because then it gets overwhelming. So I do like all of this scent. And so like my house, my entire house and even like our porch will smell like that scent that I'm working on that day, which is kind of fun. [00:00:53] Speaker C: Do you have a favorite fall scent? Asking for a friend. [00:00:56] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:58] Speaker B: So a spiced cider. I love the appley, spicy kind of a thing. And so that's been probably my favorite to work on, which works well because I accidentally spilled all of that fragrance oil all over my countertop, absorbed into my floor. [00:01:11] Speaker A: I mean, so my house will smell [00:01:13] Speaker B: like that for a while. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Oh, there you go. It'll just smell like real festive and warm in your house all the time. I was at Deep Roots Produce and saw your soaps there, and Elise, like, brought a bar over to me. She's like, look, it's from Ms. Stephanie. And she had me smell it and it was your honeysuckle. Lilac. Yeah. That smells so good. I mean, memories like lilacs just have such a powerful, I don't know, like, memory attached to them for me of just like childhood and hiding in the lilac bush in our house and stuff. [00:01:46] Speaker B: And so it's funny how scent can relate to memories. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So I loved that one. Yeah. [00:01:52] Speaker B: How about you, Ali? [00:01:54] Speaker C: We just bought a camper. We've been talking about buying one for years. My husband grew up tent camping and I grew up camping in a fifth wheel. So coming to an agreement on what type of camper has been like a ten year discussion. And we finally did it. We have big travel plans for next summer. So we are. Step one is done. We have the camper. So. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:19] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like a small, like it's hard sided. It's like 18ft. Just enough room for the two of us and our three kids to sleep in and. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:02:29] Speaker C: We're super excited. [00:02:30] Speaker B: What's the trip that you're looking at most? You said you're starting to plan? [00:02:33] Speaker C: Yeah. We are doing a cross country trip next summer. We are going all the way to California and back. [00:02:39] Speaker B: That's amazing. [00:02:41] Speaker C: We've lived in Europe twice and we've traveled all over Europe but my kids have not seen a whole lot of the United States. So we are super excited to hit up some. Some new places. [00:02:50] Speaker A: We get such bad gas mileage when we tow our camper. My husband is like doesn't want to go farther than three hours. [00:02:56] Speaker C: That was part of. My husband wanted a really small one. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But. But we love camping too so that's. That's so exciting. [00:03:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:05] Speaker B: What about you Cheyenne? [00:03:07] Speaker A: Jinx. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:11] Speaker C: We. [00:03:11] Speaker A: We were in Florida for about two weeks and it was, it was so good. It was so relaxing. I read a whole book in two days in a pool. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Which is impressive because you went down with your kids. [00:03:23] Speaker A: I know. [00:03:23] Speaker B: To read a whole book. [00:03:25] Speaker A: They just love to swim and so they were, you know, they're old enough now. They' and 11. Both about to age up one year. [00:03:31] Speaker B: Oh man. [00:03:32] Speaker A: And they were just like loving playing together and it was like 90 degrees and so it was pretty hot and the pool felt so good and I just was. We had the whole pool to ourselves and so it was really nice to [00:03:45] Speaker C: just sounds amazing to know. [00:03:47] Speaker A: I know. Yeah. To read and then. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Oh okay. [00:03:49] Speaker A: One more. One more update too. We also, we were. The place that we were at was also near the Atlantic Ocean and so we went to the nearest Walmart and we've bought twelve dollar boogie boards. Have you guys ever boogie boarded before? [00:04:03] Speaker B: No. [00:04:04] Speaker A: These waves were huge. Like I'm like having a little bit of a panic attack with the kids even being in like waist deep water because the waves were so huge. But the surfing, like the boogie boarding body surfing was amazing. Like the kids were going so far and I. It took me a couple times but I, I got it. You did it too. It would take you so far. I was, it was so fun you guys. I don't know if like Michigan gets good enough to do it like that but. Oh, it's fun. [00:04:32] Speaker B: I would imagine I would be more nervous in the ocean because it's like more water even than Michigan. Like the sharks and all stuff being brought in. [00:04:40] Speaker A: So Tyler had a fever one of the days. My husband and so I. It was just me and the Kids out in the. With those giant waves. And I had told Elise before what the, like, depth that she was allowed to go in and she was going deeper, and I. She was. She didn't listen to me. And she was. I laid into her, and it was loud, too, right? Like, the waves are crashing, so it's loud. So I needed to be loud also. And I needed her to understand that if they take her, I can't do anything to save her. She is gone. The only way to save her is for her to not go deeper than the specified depth. [00:05:16] Speaker B: I feel like there's some great analogies for the Christian, probably. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Probably. But her brother Isaiah got so upset that I yelled at her like that, that he. He was, like, giving me the cold shoulder and was like, he wouldn't come and stuff. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Sibling loyalty. [00:05:31] Speaker A: I love it. I know Usually they're like, such, like, they're fighting so much. It was kind of funny to see him. But I needed her to know that I was serious. Absolutely. I was glad you all made it back. I know. Me too. I was. I will say, as much fun as it was, I was really relieved when we were finally leaving the beach that day because I was like, I didn't lose anyone. Did lose my sunglasses, but. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Gospel Threads podcast, where we uncover gospel themes woven through all of scripture and explore what they mean for our lives today. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're talking today about Zachariah 3, which is actually a story that hadn't really been on my radar until. Ally, you brought it specifically. Specifically to our attention when we were getting ready, doing our clothes conference. Do you mind, like, sharing a little bit as to how you came across this passage? [00:06:35] Speaker C: Oh, man. I. I'm going to be honest. I don't remember how I found it, but when I did, I was like, how are we not. Like, we have to talk about this. I. We're going to get into it, but this. This passage has just become one of my favorites. Such a clear representation of what Christ does for us when he covers us with his righteousness. [00:06:56] Speaker B: So, [00:06:58] Speaker A: yeah. [00:06:58] Speaker B: So I think our listener might not know what story we're talking about. So just for everybody's sake, Germany, I'll go ahead and read the first couple verses, because I think before we get [00:07:07] Speaker A: into it, before you do that, because it brings up. It brings up a priest named Joshua. Oh, yeah. And I think that. Can I just give, like, a little bit of background about what the book of Zechariah is about? Okay. So Zechariah is a prophet, and he's having a dream and actually I was listening to it this morning and he's kind of like a kid, you know, did your kids ever, when their toddlers go, what's that? [00:07:27] Speaker C: What's that? [00:07:28] Speaker A: What's that? He's like seeing all of these things that he doesn't understand. And he's continuously over and over again asking like, what is that? What's with the seven eyes? I don't really understand that. What's this floating scroll or the flying scroll thing? [00:07:40] Speaker B: And you know, to be fair, I'd probably have the same question. [00:07:43] Speaker A: I know, same, same. But it's really funny. And I said, what's that? Over and over again. But anyway, so he's having these, these visions and all of it is about Israel and how Israel has been in exile. They were taken by Babylon and Assyria at different, at different times. And so they have been away, away from home. And finally they have started to be able to go back and to rebuild the temple. But it's getting hard. Like, it's hard. They're meeting a lot of opposition still to rebuild the temple. And so it's this encouragement to. It's the Lord giving Zechariah a message of encouragement to Israel to keep building. And one of those key players is Joshua, who is going to be the high pries of the new temple. So not Joshua from the conquest, Right? This is thousands of years later. So yes, not Jericho. Not Jericho, Joshua. Just a different, a different Joshua. And yeah, just a lot of messages of encouragement and saying, I'm going to, I'm going to make you thrive there. There will be children playing in your streets again. There will be old people sitting in the. Sitting around, which is meant to be like you're going to live a long, like longer lives. Like there's going to be prosperity and long life. So that is, that's the, I guess the big picture of what Zechariah is about, I think. Now, Ally, you've done some of this research too. Is there anything you would add to kind of the context of Zechariah? [00:09:14] Speaker C: I think it's helpful to know a little bit about the role of the high priest because that's what Joshua was. So do we want to talk about that right now? [00:09:23] Speaker A: Sure. [00:09:23] Speaker C: Okay. So we have this priest system that God's kind of set up for the Israelites way back when they were in the wilderness. We talked about that last week. [00:09:32] Speaker A: Do you mean like with the other Joshua? [00:09:34] Speaker B: Yeah, with that one. We've come full circle here. Exactly. [00:09:39] Speaker C: And so we have this System of priests. And they are meant to represent both God to Israel. They are clothed. They have these like special outfits that God was like, I want you to design them this way. And they're full of like, heavenly symbolism meant to represent God to the people. God even says in Exodus 28, when he's instructing how to make these, he says it's to give them dignity and honor. He wants his priests to be honored by, by their clothing. But their clothes are also meant to represent Israel to God. And so when they go into the temple to offer their sacrifices, they're wearing an ephod, which is like an apron and this breastplate that. A dozen different gemstones on it. And that all represents the 12 tribes of Israel, the whole nation of Israel. And so it's kind of like they are symbolically carrying the burden and the sin of Israel into the temple with them when they go to make these sacrifices for God. So they're just this intermediary person who is representing both God to the Israelites and Israelite and all of their sin to God when they go into the temple. And so that was the role of, of Joshua the high priest. And so when the Israelites would have heard this story about Joshua, they would have instinctively known that, like, oh, he represents me. He represents all of us as a people in this story. [00:11:08] Speaker A: That's good. [00:11:09] Speaker B: So I think you can kind of think almost the high priest, they're a mediator. They're a mediator from God to the people, but also from the people to God. They're like the in between person. [00:11:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Is there anything you would add about their role or their clothes? They had a lot of special clothes. [00:11:23] Speaker B: I think there's a lot of really cool parallels that as we see it. Because there's a specific piece mentioned in the story, which I think knowing all the different pieces and what they represent is really, really cool. Cause I was nerding out a little bit. Yeah, sure you are. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:11:38] Speaker A: Cool. [00:11:38] Speaker B: So I think. Do you want me to go ahead and read the first one? [00:11:41] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:42] Speaker B: So Zechariah 3, verses 1 through 5, it says this. Then he showed me Joshua, the high priest, standing before the angel of the Lord. And Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Lord said to Satan, the Lord rebuke you, O Satan, the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you. Is not this a brand plucked from the fire? Now, Joshua was standing before the angel clothed with filthy garments. And the angel said to those who were standing before him, remove the filthy garments from Him. And to him he said, behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you and I will clothe you with pure vestments. And I said, let them put a clean turban on his head. So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord was standing by. And the first time when you said this, I was like, I gotta read this story. And I read it and I'm like, where has this been? Like, I have never heard this. [00:12:34] Speaker C: It's interesting. And like, Satan is there at the beginning of it too. [00:12:38] Speaker B: And we're always saying, like, Satan is the accuser. And here, like in the text you're seeing, that's exactly what Satan is doing. He's accusing Joshua. [00:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, he's remembered all of the sins of Joshua or maybe the sins of Israel. He's kept track of them and he's come to tell God, like, hey, this is everything that, that this person has done wrong. And what does God say? Like, I don't care. [00:13:01] Speaker A: Get out of him. [00:13:02] Speaker C: Get out of here. [00:13:03] Speaker B: You would think he'd rebuke Joshua because he's like, oh, you did all of these things. Well, how dare you? And he rebuked Joshua, but he doesn't. Yeah. [00:13:10] Speaker A: And I think, I mean, I think that in the context of, of Zechariah in the like, historical time, he, God had already, like, God had kind of already rebuked Israel. That was why they went into exile, right? Was because they, it was consequence for their ongoing, continuous sin. But this is a new generation and he's giving them a fresh chance to say, like, you are guilty of the same sin and yet your hearts are, your hearts are open, your hearts are soft to me. And I'm going to do something different. I'm going to do something different with you. And Satan can't have a say in that. Like, he, he does not give him any power to, to say what, what his standing should be before the Lord. I think it's so, I don't like, it's so powerful, I think, for us to think about. When I, when I think about how Satan accuses me and read this story and how just how like in emphatically the Lord rebukes Satan, it's like, oh, my goodness, how am I. I'm more listening. I'm more likely to just listen to the accuser and be like, yeah, that's probably what God thinks of me too, you know, and get those two voices mixed up. But the story is so powerful. What other things do you guys see from this passage that stick out to you? [00:14:29] Speaker B: Well, and I thought it was so interesting that it's saying that he was in filthy garments because of what the priest's garments signified, which you talked about. Like that saying, like the 12 tribes of Israel, it's their sin that is like being on display on visually like on the high priest. And it's so interesting because looking up like what filthy means, there's actually like this connotation of like excrement stained clothing, which takes it to like another level. Like this isn't just like dirt and mud. Like this is stinky, smelly, like potentially disease. Like that's how a lot of disease is transmitted. [00:15:06] Speaker C: Doesn't get much more dirty than that. [00:15:08] Speaker A: No, it doesn't. [00:15:08] Speaker B: And actually. Okay, can I take a side tangent a second because. Oh, goodness story. Okay. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Oh no, it's gonna be a poop story, I think. [00:15:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes, it is. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Okay, so it was. I forget which of my children it was, but I remember it was like one of those middle of the night diaper changes. And it was like the newborn of like newborn dirty diapers are like a whole different level of dirty diaper because they don't always contain in the diapers. Yeah. Okay. I'm painting a bad visual picture. Yeah. So it was middle of the night, it was a diaper change. And I in my sleep deprived state apparently threw the dirty diaper into the clothes hamp instead of the diaper hammer. And I didn't catch it because like it got on the clothes too. And so like I walked in the room and just smelled that it stunk. Like the next morning I'm like, I'm going to do the laundry. So I do the laundry with the dirty pooper poopy diaper in the load. [00:16:01] Speaker A: And I. [00:16:02] Speaker B: You didn't even find it. I didn't find it before. So I didn't find it until it went through the washing machine, which then like the diaper beads and everything like had expensive exploded. And so like every washer. Well, I didn't have money to get my washer. [00:16:18] Speaker A: I don't know if I really could, but that's what I'd want to do. [00:16:20] Speaker B: But like the dirty diaper didn't stay contained in the dirty diaper. Then it went all over all of the clothes that like, it didn't. That weren't covered in. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Did you cry? I would have cried. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Oh, I lost it. I called my husband. I was like, there's poop everywhere. It's all over the clothes. And he's like, honey, you can wash it. I'm like, no, it's in the washing machine. It was so bad. So I learned how to clean a washing machine because there's nothing else to do. Right. It's not like I was drowning and trying to figure out how to do it. [00:16:46] Speaker C: Being in the newborn stage is hard enough. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:50] Speaker C: A whole load of poopy. I'm so sorry. [00:16:52] Speaker B: No, I. Well, you know, maybe God had it happen. Because when I read that it was, like, excrement, that it was dirty garments, God gave me a very visual picture of what that you could relate. Okay, I could very much relate, But [00:17:07] Speaker A: God does not wash his clothes for him. God gives him new clothes, so even better. I know. Which is what I set things up when I said you needed a new washer, but there we go. Yeah. [00:17:18] Speaker B: It doesn't even clean. [00:17:19] Speaker A: I'll tell you what. I threw away several things because I just couldn't. Not. Not washing machines, but outfits, onesies. Yeah. [00:17:26] Speaker B: You know, that was like garage sale onesies that, when they got to that point. [00:17:30] Speaker A: I know. Yeah. [00:17:31] Speaker C: Just can't come back. [00:17:32] Speaker B: No, but all that tangent to say that the filthy garments here is actually, like, supposed to paint a picture of what our sin is. It's not just like this, like, kind of surface level. Yuck. It's like this very, like, visceral. This is wrong. This is not okay. This is. That's what sin is like to God. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Yeah. And it. I mean, they wouldn't have been allowed into. He has a priest. He wouldn't have been allowed in the temple. Like, there was separation, too. That it would have signified. And I like how you're. Yeah, I like how you're bringing out, like, this is just, like, filthy. Like, I can. Okay. How many days do you go between washing your hair? Like, I can go. Do you want to know? This week? Six or seven. [00:18:15] Speaker C: Whoa. [00:18:16] Speaker A: That's amazing. I think the most I can do is, like, four. So it's, like, dirty, like, to a certain level. Like, we can deal with our own filth. Not filth. I'm sorry. [00:18:25] Speaker B: That's maybe why you guys are skating further away from me this week. [00:18:28] Speaker A: But you know what I'm saying? Like, we can kind of. Like, we can kind of deal with a little bit of dirt and, like, just. [00:18:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:32] Speaker A: You know, we can deal with a little bit dirt. But when you're bringing out, like, that there was poop on, like, poop kind of stuff. Like poop in the hair. Nope, that's not. I got A seagull got me once. Not. I was gonna immediately. I was not gonna just do dry shampoo for that day. That was. No, that was a washing day. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Well, and I think it's interesting too, because, I mean, sometimes can we relate to that? Like, imagine, like, going to church and you look down and like, I remember I would look down and be like, oh, no, I spilled coffee. Or like, oh, no, my baby threw up on me. And you're like, oh, shoot. And you're kind of embarrassed to walk into church. Like, how much more would the high priests feel standing before the Lord covered in really filthy, stinky garments? Like, I don't know that just to me, I put myself in Joshua's spot, and there's just like this knot in the pit of my stomach that's like, oh, man. And then you think of Satan accusing, too, and everything he's saying, it's not like, it's not true. Right, Right. Like, he's not falling. He's not, like, throwing, like, lies. The way that you hurt somebody is to air their dirty laundry of what's actually happened. And that's, like, happening from Satan before the Lord. Um, and to me, that just makes it a whole nother level of just, like, that desperation that he must have felt. And I know I can relate. [00:19:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Okay. I have a question. Um, and I have an idea. But okay, so on. In verse sec. In verse second, in verse two, it says, is not this talking about Joshua, a brand plucked from the fire? [00:19:59] Speaker B: What. [00:20:00] Speaker A: What's your take on. What do you think that was meant to convey? Do either of you have an idea? [00:20:06] Speaker C: I have an idea. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Oh, share. Because right now my brain is going blank. [00:20:11] Speaker C: Okay, well, I'm just. I'm gonna tell you my little. I just cheated. And there's a little number two next to where it says brand number two in my es. Excrement joke in my ESV Bible. Next. Next to brand, there's a little number two. So I look down at the bottom, at my footnotes in my Bible, and it says, that is a burning stick. And so we. [00:20:33] Speaker A: We've. [00:20:34] Speaker C: There is this imagery throughout the Bible of we are all going to be thrown into the fire because we are sinful. And that's what we deserve is this eternal punishment to burn in the, you know, fire in hell. But God, when we trust in him and put our faith in him, we're like a branch that's being plucked out of the fire, and he's saving us from that punishment of sin. And so I think that here God is Looking at Joshua, the high priest, and he's like, well, no, you can't have him, Satan, because he's mine, because his faith is in me and he is saved. And so all of those dirty things that he has done, they don't matter because now he is clean and he is righteous because of his faith in me. [00:21:18] Speaker B: And as you were saying that too, it made me think of. With him being the high priest, I'm pretty sure there were some Levitical laws that if there were garments of a certain level, like, they couldn't just be, like, thrown out of the camp, but they actually had to be, like, burned. So I wonder if there's some imagery with like, some of the ceremonial, like the cleanliness laws of if he is covered in that dirty of a garment. He's not actually talking about the clothes, right. He's talking about their hearts, their sin. That like you were saying, the Bible does talk about the wrath and the sin, having the judgment of burning. [00:21:49] Speaker C: Is that where you were going to go back? [00:21:50] Speaker B: What, do you have to. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Or do you have more. Yeah, that was kind of where I was going. I mean, the other, like, burning image that we see in scripture is also of like, the burning incense. But it's. I mean, I think this whole. In the context of the story, it sounds to me like it is saying, like, I've already. I've taken him away from something, you know, that was going to consume him. So I think it's more likely what you're sharing. At least I'm going to have to do. I don't know. Trends. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Don't. [00:22:16] Speaker A: Don't take this as commentary of what it for sure is, but just. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's interesting too, that it's Joshua, the high priest that's being made in this picture. Like, this is a vision. This isn't actually happening. It's a vision. So God could have used any number of people in the camp to represent this, but instead it's Joshua and he's supposed to be like the holiest person, right? Like the person who is supposed to be like, the most clean, the most revered, like the most. Like God because he's the mediator from God to them is the one that's being painted as, like, the dirtiest. And so it just seems like there's a lot of things that are being turned upside down of, like, what the human expectation is, is not what God is presenting. And so I just feel like that's really interesting, too. [00:23:03] Speaker A: That is really interesting. Yeah. [00:23:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Well, then let's get on to what happens with his clothes? Like, what does it mean? We've talked about the dirty clothes represent sin. And then what happens next with his dirty clothes? After Satan's gone, what does. What happens to Joshua? [00:23:22] Speaker B: Well, I think it's so beautiful because it's not just wash them like you were saying, and give it back to them. It's remove them and I'm gonna give you clean new. And I think that is just such a beautiful picture of the gospel of God. You know, he. Jesus, when he died on the cross, didn't just take the punishment for our sin, which he absolutely did, but he also gives us righteousness. And I think that this is just such a beautiful picture in the Old Testament, guys. Like, this is in the Old Testament before, like, Jesus came, that we're now, like, seeing God's plan, like, so imbued in scripture that you get to the New Testament and you see everything that Jesus did, and there's like, there's no way this was coincidence. Like, this is very clearly God's plan from the beginning. And so to see that this is, like, God's righteousness being given, not just the sin taken away, I think is such a beautiful image of the gospel. [00:24:12] Speaker A: That's so good. [00:24:13] Speaker C: And we. I mean, we live in a time where we get both the Old Testament and the New Testament, so we can really easily come to the story and we can see, like, how this has been fulfilled. But a lot of these, like, prophet stories, the symbolism can be really confusing. And in this one, it's just. It's not. It's pretty clear, like, God takes our sin and he gives us his righteousness. And hopefully it was just as clear for the people at the time that, like, this is. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Is. [00:24:42] Speaker C: This is coming. This is. If you. Hold on, you're going to get this too. [00:24:46] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think it's really interesting because it specifically mentions, like, I'm going to clothe you with pure vestments. But then it says, put a clean turban on his head. Which for my American, like, mind, like, I'm not familiar with that or even, like, what that would have signified for the high priest in their garment. And so I looked it up, like, what's the deal with the turban? [00:25:05] Speaker A: Like, her nerd out moment. Let's hear it. [00:25:07] Speaker C: Moment. [00:25:08] Speaker B: But so the turban symbolized holiness for the high priest. And it in it also showed that they have, like, authority. And on the turban there was actually this inscription that said, holy to the Lord. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Oh. [00:25:21] Speaker B: And so, like, if clothes were not enough. God is saying, let me remind you that you are not defined by your dirty clothes. You are now holy to the Lord. And I'm going to put you back in the mission field. Like, I'm going to put you back into the authority position that I've placed you on. Like, I'm not taking you out. Yeah, I just heard everything Satan accused you of doing. I'm not taking you out and having you sit the bench for this one. Like, I'm putting you right back in the game. And I think that was just such a sweet thing that I needed to hear personally from me for the Lord of. You know, when I look at passages like this, it's so easy for me to bring up every sin that I'm struggling with, because I think it's true for me, and I would guess it's true for most other people. There's always like, that one sin that keeps in the back of your head that you're like, God, I know you forgive me, but can you really forgive me for that? And sometimes, like, the Satan will just, like, he'll accuse it. And sometimes I just dwell on that and I question, like, God, do you really love me? And this week it's like, yes. And I'm not having you sit the sidelines because I know about that sin. Like, I'm putting you right back in. I want you to go do the mission that I've called you to do. And that was just such a reminder that I personally needed. And so I was nerding out over this, and I was, you know, God, just really. It was a really sweet moment between me and the Lord preparing for this [00:26:38] Speaker A: one that is so powerful because, yeah, you know, I oversee women's ministry at Peace Church, and so I do a lot of recruiting. And it's often that when I'm talking, when I'm trying to recruit a Bible study leader, she'll be like, oh, no, I'm not. I'm not qualified. You don't, you know, you, you don't really want me maybe go see if someone else wants to. Like, see if you can find someone else and then talk to me. And maybe. And it's like, she loves the Lord. You know, I, She. She loves the Lord with all her heart. She loves learning from his Word. And yet there's this relatable thing where we feel we. So, me too. I get, I, I completely get it. Like, just feel unqualified because of our sin struggles or our past sin or, you know, fill in, fill in the blank of how, how Our sin is making us feel unqualified and unfit for service, and yet. [00:27:31] Speaker C: Which is what Satan wants. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:33] Speaker C: As the accuser. That's why he was there. He wants you to. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's so. That's so good stuff. [00:27:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:43] Speaker A: And it reminds me of. It reminds me of union with Christ. My favorite doctrine. [00:27:51] Speaker C: Yes. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Just like how this idea of what is true of Christ is true of us. Because of Christ. Christ that. You know, the only way that we can wear the turban that says holy. What is that holy? Holy to the Lord is not because of what we've done. It's because he clothes us in Christ so that when God looks at us, he sees all the glory and the perfection of Jesus, even though that's not what has been true, it's been made true of us, even though we don't deserve it. And that's his grace and mercy. It's just unthinkable, honestly, to imagine that. [00:28:27] Speaker C: And you bring up a really good point, that now we are the priests. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. [00:28:32] Speaker C: Peter says in First Peter 2, he says, you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Now, you are the priests. You are the ones. We are the ones meant to represent God. God to the world. We are holy to the Lord. We are set apart for him so that we can bring him praise and tell others about how he brought us out of darkness, out of the filthy rags. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Yeah. I love how this, like, propels us forward. Like, it's not even just, like, a status statement, but it's a. Like, it's also a mission call to go and to represent Christ to the world. Yeah. I honestly, I hadn't read it that way until I didn't either. Until I had my own sitting around here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. [00:29:30] Speaker C: How else can you guys see the Gospel from this story? [00:29:35] Speaker B: Well, I think it actually made me think of, like, Romans 3:23. Like, we're all familiar. Like, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And that's kind of immediately where my mind went, because that's probably, like, what Joshua was feeling. [00:29:48] Speaker C: Right? [00:29:48] Speaker B: Like, he is standing before the Lord being accused of these sins, and he's also representing all of Israel standing before. Right. So, like, all have fallen. It's not just Joshua feeling the weight of that. But then it goes on at verse 24, it says, and are justified by his grace as a gift through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus. And we're literally in this passage, like seeing. So, okay, I wanted to figure out who the angel of the Lord was and there's not like a definitive thing. So I am not stating this at all with like saying this is for sure what it is. But some people have speculated that they this could potentially have been Jesus as the angel of the Lord in the situation. [00:30:23] Speaker A: The pre incarnate son. Yeah, right. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Yes, thank you. So we don't know that. Right, but that's what some people have speculated because there's other times in the Old Testament where you see the angel of the Lord and that is fairly confidently who that is. So here in this passage, we literally see potentially Jesus giving new clothes, that this gift that you don't deserve is the being given to you. And it's through the redemption that he provides thousands of years later on the cross. And so to have this Old Testament story paired like with, with what we read in Romans I think is just so amazing too. You just see like the Bible isn't just like a whole bunch of little stories. It's like one big story. And we just get to like see the thread running through the entire Bible. [00:31:07] Speaker C: The gospel thread. [00:31:08] Speaker B: The gospel thread. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Good weight. I like how you did that. [00:31:11] Speaker C: Thanks. [00:31:11] Speaker A: We're not subtle at all, are we? I just. Okay. When I was listening to Zechariah this morning, you know, things stick out to you. And in, in chapter six, it was talking. I had to like go back to it because I'm like, wait a second, is it talking about Joshua or is it talking about Jesus? And I still, I think like a lot of prophecy, there's the already fulfillment and then there's the not yet fulfillment. And so, so I think it's talking about both. It says make a. In verse 11, make a crown. So now, okay, we've, we have the turban, right? But now it says make a crown and set it on the head of Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest. And say to him, thus says the Lord of hosts, Behold the man whose name is the branch. For he shall branch out from his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord. It is he who shall build the temple of the Lord and shall bear royal honor and shall sit and rule on his. His throne. And there shall be a priest on his throne. And the council of peace shall be between them both. I feel like it's like, you know what we see Joshua, the place that we see Joshua holding in the temple is just like also Symbolic of what is going to be in Jesus, this perfect holy mediator between God and people who is going to rule over his. For the dwelling place of his people, too. And so there's just like. So there's so much hope in. And weird. Weird imagery also, but hope in the book of Zechariah, as we think about the hope for, like, this generation that heard this message, but also then as we think about, like, the future and the final fulfillment of just the peace, the kingdom of peace that we will have someday in heaven. [00:32:56] Speaker C: Yeah. I love that. Just thinking about Jesus being the great high priest, going to the cross, wearing the burden of all of our. Yeah. Our guilt and our shame and our sin. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And ruling with authority, too. Of, like, what he says. [00:33:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:11] Speaker A: Is true. You know, that. That he has. He has the final say in the authority. Yeah. It's good stuff. [00:33:19] Speaker C: So good. [00:33:19] Speaker A: I enjoy all of this nerding out. [00:33:22] Speaker C: I also love how Joshua is just like a bystander in this whole story. Like, he comes, he doesn't do anything. He's just standing there and all of this stuff is happening to him. And God is the one who is like, no, I'm gonna take. Take you and make you clean. And that's true for me, too. Like, I'm just a bystander in my. In my salvation. God is the one who has done all of the work in me. He is the one who has made me clean and righteous. Nothing that I have done has saved [00:33:55] Speaker A: me by grace alone, through faith alone. [00:33:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Christ alone. Down. Yeah. So good, you guys. All the theology tidbits that you can get from it that are like. They're meaningful, they're rich. It's not just academic, you know, it's truth. That helps us to interpret other scripture better, too, and to. I don't know, to live it out. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Can I share just one other thing that kind of stood out to me as we were. [00:34:20] Speaker A: No, I think we're running out of time. Oh, okay. I'm just kidding. Yes, of course. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Okay. So one. One of the things that stood out to me is it's kind of like a courtroom setting. [00:34:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Like, there's the accuser and then Jesus. There's a lot of the imagery in this passage, and one of the things that I. That struck me was that there's an accuser in the courtroom, but we have an advocate in Jesus. And it made me think of First John 2, verse 1, and it says, my little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin, but if Anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ. Christ to the righteous. And as, like, I'm just picturing myself, right. Because I'm Joshua in this situation, like, I'm the one standing covered in sin, that I'm hearing the accusations of all of the things that I've done, that so often I forget that I also have an advocate. [00:35:11] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:35:11] Speaker B: And the advocate is standing up for me and not just like, defending me because, like, it's true what is being hurled, but. But that they're advocating for me and like. Like taking my sin and giving me the righteousness. And so just that courtroom imagery that I kind of saw play out in this passage, I feel like was really strong too, because I'm sure there's people that have listened that you've stood in the courtroom, you've been maybe as a witness, you've been maybe, you know, in. In the jury, but some of you probably have been in the seat of being the one that's being accused of a crime. And. And we all have sinned. But there's not a sin that's, like, bigger than what God can forgive. And so I think rather than hear this and keep, like, the. The condemnation, we can feel the conviction, but then the freedom that God gives through what he's done for us on the cross. [00:36:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's beautiful. So good. Yeah, it's really helpful. Yeah. [00:36:09] Speaker B: So I think. Can I give a piece of homework? [00:36:13] Speaker A: Yes. You are so good at this homework. [00:36:15] Speaker B: It's the homeschool teacher coming out. I've always got the homework. [00:36:19] Speaker A: And I'm the public school mom that's like, oh, no, I play with my kids. I don't want homework. [00:36:27] Speaker B: This one will hopefully serve you well, though. [00:36:29] Speaker A: Okay, I'm ready. [00:36:29] Speaker B: It's not too labor intensive. [00:36:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:31] Speaker B: So we talked earlier that there's usually that sin that you just feel like God can't forgive me for this. And I want you to just take that sin and write it on a piece of paper. And we actually did this in women's Bible study a couple years ago, where. Go out of your house, people, please don't do this in your house. But, like, take that piece of paper and burn it, because it's no longer defining you. It's no longer being used against you to accuse you, because Jesus has paid for it. And part of God's justice is that he's not going to punish us in twice that. If it's paid for by Jesus, it's not paid for by us. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:04] Speaker B: And so that's the homework. And I hope that just creates a really pretty imagery of just like. Like, it's. It's no longer there. [00:37:09] Speaker C: Right. [00:37:10] Speaker A: I love that. And perfect timing. Like those. Those, you know, bonfires. Get. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Get the bonfires. [00:37:17] Speaker A: The bonfire going and light it up. Yeah, I love that. That's so good. Okay, I accept. Here. I accept your homework. Cool. Well, this has been an awesome passage to talk about and one that is so overlooked. Like, this is not an I. I mean. Okay, Ali, I know you sent us a picture of a children's Bible with a high priest on it, but I'm assuming that the story. [00:37:39] Speaker C: It wasn't him, though. [00:37:40] Speaker A: It was. [00:37:41] Speaker C: Who was it? [00:37:42] Speaker B: But he still had the little inscription on the turban. I looked at it. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But worth going into a. I mean, sure, I think. I think it's very Worth going into with your kids, too, because I think kids feel that, too, the shame and of. Of their sins. So. [00:38:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:01] Speaker A: Good stuff. Good stuff. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Well, I think. To close us, can I leave our listeners with a verse to kind of just. It's a great reminder of what we talked about today. So this is from Isaiah 61:10. And it says, I will greatly rejoice in the Lord. My soul shall exalt in my God. For he has clothed me with the garments of salvation. He has covered me with a robe of righteousness. As a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress. And the bride adorns herself with her jewel.