Naked and Afraid

[00:00:01] Speaker A: All right, ladies, I want to hear. Can you give me any life updates? [00:00:04] Speaker B: Life updates? [00:00:06] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I can. My life changed pretty dramatically this week. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Dramatically. [00:00:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Big, big life change. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Fill us in. [00:00:13] Speaker C: My husband bought me a, like a walking pad, like a. Like one of the little treadmills, and like a stand for my laptop at my desk. So now I can work and walk at the same time. [00:00:26] Speaker B: How is that going for you? [00:00:28] Speaker C: So good. I love it. I heard. I heard it took. It takes like a week or to get used to, and you have to start really slow. [00:00:33] Speaker A: I feel like I trip all the time. [00:00:35] Speaker C: It's going good. I feel like, better than I expected. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Good. Is it one of the curved ones so that you know it's flat? [00:00:42] Speaker C: Nope, it's flat. And I just. I walk and I don't know. I'm not super fast yet, but I feel like I'm about to be the healthiest I've ever been. So watch out. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Way to go. [00:00:52] Speaker C: Watch out. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Okay, how do you, like, type when you're walking? Like, are you accurate or what are you doing while you're walking? Because you said you got a desk. Yeah. I would not be coordinated enough to do. [00:01:01] Speaker C: I'm just more coordinated than most people. No, I'm actually not at all. Jordan would laugh if he heard me say that. But I don't know. I'm not the best typer anyway, so I'm. [00:01:11] Speaker A: There's autocorrect. [00:01:11] Speaker C: I'm not walking very fast, but it's multitasking at its finest for sure. [00:01:17] Speaker B: I recently just found out. So my. My mom works out every. Pretty much every night in the basement. They have a couple different. They have like a stair stepper and a bike and then a treadmill. And I just found out that my mom, who is. Y' all who know her won't believe this, but she is 70. [00:01:32] Speaker C: Really? [00:01:33] Speaker A: I would not have guessed. Not that 70 is. [00:01:36] Speaker B: It's. Cause she works out so much. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:38] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:01:38] Speaker B: But I just found out that twice now she has, like, looked to the side just slightly and has fallen off her treadmill. And one of the times it, like, fell over her, like, came up over her and so. Ooh. I mean, she's not like a frail 70 year old, but still. I just was like, mom, you can't do this. [00:01:56] Speaker C: Does she wear the safety clip? [00:01:58] Speaker B: She did. She was not. But now she wear the safety clip. Yes. Yes. So I didn't even know there was such a thing. Do you wear a safety clip? [00:02:06] Speaker C: No. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Oh, no. That's for old people. [00:02:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that's for people in their 70s. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Okay, explain to me how the safety clip works, because I just imagine it's, [00:02:16] Speaker A: like, on the string, and so you fall and you attach, like, the string to you. So if you. Yeah, it stops the treadmill when the key comes out. [00:02:23] Speaker B: Okay. I was picturing it as, like, a leash or something, like a harness, but [00:02:27] Speaker A: you're just dragging behind the treadmill. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that would stop it. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Terrible. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Okay, it stops. Gotcha, gotcha. [00:02:33] Speaker C: No, walking pad doesn't have a safety clip because you can't go that fast on it. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. [00:02:38] Speaker C: Okay. What about you guys? What's going on? [00:02:41] Speaker B: I had to take my car in again. I know, I know. I got a new battery, and the check engine light went off, and so I was like, yay. And then a few days later, the light came back on. So I don't know. That's my. That's my update. It's not very exciting. I have a vet appointment this afternoon. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Not for you, for an animal. A vet appointment. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Correct. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Thanks for clarifying. Absolutely. I don't know how to feel about you needing to clarify that. [00:03:05] Speaker A: I wanted to make sure I heard you correctly, that it was like, a vet, because you just went to the vehicle, and I don't know if, like, you call the mechanic event. I'd never heard that. So I just needed to know the lingo. [00:03:15] Speaker B: No vet appointment. Yeah. Our little stinker cat, Mo, who has, like, 10,000 lives, he's got more than nine. I don't know. He's had, like, a UTI for forever, and it's not clearing up, so I don't know, man. [00:03:28] Speaker C: I'm sorry. [00:03:28] Speaker B: I know. Yeah, yeah, he's fine. We were playing yesterday. Like, he still is acting like his normal self, so that's good. But. Yeah, sorry, that's a downer, you guys. What about you, Steph? I hope you have better news than I do. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Have a bad coming, but it's to just check up. We're getting ready for little baby goats to be born on our farm. Hopefully the end of February, they're gonna start giving birth, and they're getting close, so trying to gear up and not be nervous that if it's really, really cold, that's kind of dangerous for them to give birth in. And usually we like to wait until, like, April for them to have babies when it's warmer. But our male goat was very eager and actually, like, broke through the metal shed back to get in with the ladies. Okay, so babies are gonna be born a little earlier than anticipated here. We go. Here we go. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Very exciting. Oh, my. Have you seen her baby goats in person? [00:04:15] Speaker C: No. [00:04:15] Speaker A: You'll have to come over. [00:04:16] Speaker C: I'm gonna come over. [00:04:17] Speaker A: And they're, like the size of a [00:04:18] Speaker B: cat and they're, like, pretty. I always think of goats as being really stiff, but it was, like, flexible, and it was just like a little kitten in mine. It did feel like you could pass over. [00:04:27] Speaker A: Way more sad. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Talk about, like, killing lambs. I know. It was a one year old lamb. [00:04:33] Speaker A: The one year old. Okay, so they're old. [00:04:34] Speaker B: But still. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Still it. [00:04:36] Speaker B: I know it's rough or maybe. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Which is the point. Right? Sin is rough, you know, but. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Oh, baby goats. I can't wait. Please tell me. [00:04:43] Speaker C: Well, they're not as cute, but today we'll be talking about pigs, right? [00:04:47] Speaker B: Oh, good. [00:04:51] Speaker C: Maybe the babies, but not these pigs. [00:04:53] Speaker A: No. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Gospel Threads podcast, where we uncover gospel themes woven through all of scripture and explore what they mean for our lives today. Foreign. [00:05:18] Speaker A: So today we're going to be talking about the demon possessed man, which is found in a couple different parts in the New Testament. But the passage we're going to be focusing on is Luke 8, verses 26 to 33. So before we jump in, would either of you like to give context as to what has been happening in the book of Luke? Right. Before we get to this story? [00:05:40] Speaker B: I can. [00:05:40] Speaker C: Or go ahead. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Sure. [00:05:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:42] Speaker B: So Jesus and the disciples have been going around. They've been doing miracles, and Jesus has been teaching. He's gotten some new followers, including. It talks about some women who start following him, too. And they're going from an area that's familiar to them on one side of the Sea of Galilee, and they are. Now Jesus is taking them to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which they're going from, like a Jewish community to. To what we'll actually discover because of the pigs, you know, were unclean animals that they weren't supposed to. Jews weren't supposed to eat. To a gentile community that's on the other side of the Sea of Galilee. So they get in the boat and Jesus falls asleep, and there is this storm that's, like, really. It's really threatening and scary, and I cannot imagine. I mean, they didn't have life jackets, y'. [00:06:30] Speaker C: All. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Like, this was to be on a. In a boat, in a storm was. Was very threatening. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:37] Speaker B: Um, especially with, like, a tall mast. I mean, this is not like, bad news all around. And they wake Jesus up and he rebukes the wind and the raging waves. And they cease, and it's all calm. And it just goes to show, like, Jesus's authority, the whole full scope of his authority, that he has authority over even the wind and the waves. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Love that. [00:06:59] Speaker B: So. And I think that's something to keep in mind, like, Jesus's authority as we go. Our story today of the pigs and the demon possessed man, you know? Yeah. [00:07:07] Speaker A: So I think you kind of just alluded it, but why is the context significant as we go into this story about the demon and the pigs? [00:07:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I just think so that. So that we're already. We're already marveling at Jesus's power and authority. And I think that Jesus wants the disciples to be feeling that too, as they go into this next situation. But of course, I mean, we don't know exactly how the disciples felt, but I have a feeling they were not feeling super comfortable in this next situation. Is there anything you would add, Ali? [00:07:39] Speaker C: I just. I just want to state the obvious, that this is not a surprising text for us to pick for a women's podcast. Talking about clothing. This is completely normal thing for us [00:07:51] Speaker B: to be talking about today. Right, right, right. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's important, too, when you're talking about, like, the disciples are realizing Jesus is not just this. I think the question they ask is, like, what manner of man is this? In some translations, that's what they're asking. And I think this is a natural outflowing to show this is not just a regular man. Like, there is something else going on here. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. [00:08:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:17] Speaker A: So we. So that just happened. They've crossed the sea. They're now in this gentile area. Can you kind of like, prime the story for us? Like, what. What is actually going to happen in this story? [00:08:29] Speaker B: Okay, so they are. They just got done, like, they're. They're safe on land. Right. They think they're. They feel safe, like they're finally on land. They made it through the storm. They crossed to where they were going. And it doesn't even say. I heard someone say that. It doesn't even tell us if the disciples even get out of the boat. And there's speculation that, like, maybe they didn't. Because what happens as soon as Jesus's feet land on land is this demon possessed dude who's naked. So we're talking about clothing. There's no clothing. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Here's the opposite of clothing. [00:08:59] Speaker B: He's, like, coming running down to meet Jesus and this man, like, Ali, help me out with some of the details. Like, what were some of the details of this guy who's coming at Jesus. [00:09:10] Speaker C: Yeah. It says that he doesn't live in houses, he lives among the tombs. So he's living among the dead people that, that these spirits, these demons in him would often cause him to like run out to isolated places, to the desert. He was often alone. He also, when he was around people, they would have him like under chains and guards. But he had this like supernatural strength that he could just break out of these chains. He was very violent. [00:09:38] Speaker A: He was scary [00:09:41] Speaker C: screaming out. [00:09:42] Speaker B: So that's in, like in Mark, it talks about that detail of him cutting, like day and night. He would cry out and cut himself with stones. [00:09:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's heartbreaking, honestly, to see the condition that this man's in and what he's gone through and just how hopeless his situation is. He cannot do anything about it. Like he's just. He's under control of these demons. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:10:06] Speaker A: The disciples went from being scared of the water and the storm to now being scared from a different type of a storm. I don't know if you would get [00:10:12] Speaker B: out of the boat. [00:10:12] Speaker A: I might be with them, hunkered down on the boat, ready to get out. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Regardless of whether they. I mean, we. Again, we don't know for sure if they did or they didn't. It doesn't say. Yeah, I think I'd be staying in the boat, hiding below deck, I think. But Jesus doesn't do that. That. [00:10:29] Speaker A: No. So would you guys mind starting to read the passage for us? I'm not sure who wants to take the beginning part of it. It's helpful to read it so our listeners know too. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I can read it. Forgive my mispronunciations. If I do, just say I'm loud and proud. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Nobody will know. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Okay, so verse starting Luke 8, verse 26. Then they sailed to the country of the G, which is opposite Galilee. When Jesus had stepped out on land, there met him a man from the city who had demons. For a long time he had worn no clothes and he had lived in a house but among the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell down before him and said with a loud voice, what have you to do with me, Jesus, son of the most High God, I beg you, do not torment me. For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For many a time it had seized him. He was kept under guard and bound with chains and shackles. But he would break the bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert. Jesus then asked him what is your name? And he said, legion. For many demons had entered him. And here's where it gets really interesting. You guys ready? Uh, so verse 31. And they begged him not to command them to depart into the abyss. Now a large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him to let them enter these. So he gave them permission. Then the demons came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the herd rushed into the steep bank, into the lake and drowned. Wow. [00:11:55] Speaker C: Wow is right. Yeah. [00:11:58] Speaker B: I mean, I remember this. And don't you remember this from the children's books that you Bibles that you [00:12:02] Speaker C: read to your kids? [00:12:02] Speaker A: I do, but I think. So Allie kind of joked about earlier. Yeah. Yours didn't have it. There was like one of mine that did as a kid. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Did they have the pigs drowning even? [00:12:10] Speaker A: Not drowning, but they showed them heading towards the side of the cliff. [00:12:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:14] Speaker C: So it's like, oh, poor pigs. [00:12:16] Speaker A: But okay, so to just pause because, like, you kind of were joking earlier. This is totally normal to read for us, talking about clothing, in case we missed. Missed it. Like, what are already, like, did we see either clothing or not clothing in this passage? [00:12:29] Speaker C: Like, why are we actually lack of clothing. This man was running around naked. Yeah, yeah. Which it just goes to show that, like, he's lost all dignity. He is vulnerable like this guy. Like, he can't do anything about his situation. [00:12:45] Speaker B: So the word that comes to mind for me is like, it's gone beyond the point. You know, a lot of times as we've been talking about clothed and unclothed, usually being unclothed has kind of been like being exposed or being vulnerable. And I think. Or like shame. Your shame being exposed. I think this goes even. Even like beyond shame to where he's just untamable. So it's like adding a whole nother layer of like he couldn't clothe himself if he wanted to because this demon is controlling him. [00:13:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:16] Speaker A: And potentially the only thing that he is wearing potentially is like the shackles and the bindings. So like to even think of the being naked and to be bound in shack. Shackled, which he can break out of. But just that picture of not only like the vulnerability, but also like literal bondage, both like, spiritually and physically. [00:13:34] Speaker B: That's true. Yeah. [00:13:35] Speaker C: Because it's not just a couple of demons. It says a legion. Do you know how many a legion [00:13:40] Speaker B: I didn't look at. I've. I've looked it up before, but I didn't remember. Do you. [00:13:44] Speaker C: Well, in. Oh, goodness. I don't have it here. Another trans. Or another one of the books. I don't remember which one. Maybe Matthew. It's said about 2000. [00:13:54] Speaker A: That's kind of what I had heard too. I wanted to look it up. [00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah. I also had read that Elysian was the largest unit in a roman army. Often 3,000 to 6,000 men. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Wow. [00:14:06] Speaker C: A lot that we're talking thousands here. Thousands of demons in this man. [00:14:12] Speaker B: I can't even imagine. And I mean it shows by how untamable he is, how violent and hostile and scared. I don't know scary he is. I gotta imagine the people in the city were afraid of him too. If he couldn't even be chained at all. [00:14:29] Speaker A: And there's a lot of aspects of it too, like living with the dead. Like even that. Like today it's like, where do you want to go if. If you, you know, not. I'm not advocating for Halloween, guys, but if Halloween. You think of graveyards and it's the scary. Like those scary movies involve death and. And this is a real life. This isn't a made up thing. This happened. This is terrifying. [00:14:49] Speaker B: This is terrifying. Yeah. So like there's some interesting things in here. Okay. We know that he. The demon's name is Legion, you know, because it doesn't even sound like Jesus is talking to the man. Like Jesus talking to the demons. [00:15:03] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Also interesting, you guys, this demon comes like seeks Jesus out, wouldn't you? That's surprising to me. [00:15:12] Speaker C: It is super surprising. Yeah. And why do you think that is? [00:15:16] Speaker B: I don't. I. I don't know. Other than if he thought like, oh, he's coming for me anyways so I can get there first to beg for mercy, I guess. What do you do? Have any thoughts? [00:15:27] Speaker A: There's an interesting pattern. Cause in our Bible study we just were reading in Acts and there's the slave girl who is enslaved by demons. And so often I just find it interesting, the demons are actually calling out truth. [00:15:39] Speaker C: Isn't that. [00:15:40] Speaker A: I know. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:41] Speaker A: That just to me is just so. [00:15:42] Speaker B: What truth? Like explain what you mean. [00:15:44] Speaker A: What he's doing here is he' like, what is your name? Legion for Remeni. And he's begging him to not command, to depart into the abyss. And so they're already like acknowledging Jesus has the authority to do something to me, like that's just a given. It's assumed. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:01] Speaker A: And so that's just interesting because I think of demons as being kind of manipulative and trying to go behind the scenes. But actually in scripture, a lot of Times they're calling out truth, and it's just assumed that Jesus is God, that he has authority. [00:16:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a lot of times, too, it's meant, like, especially in the axe case with the. With the little slave girl, it's meant to be a distraction, too. And so a lot of times that's when we see people respond, and like, Jesus here, he responds and shows that he is not with the demons. Like, they are not on the same team. They might be saying something that's true, but they are not working together. And so we see that here, too. But I think it goes to show how much power Jesus has that an army of demons, thousands of them together, are afraid of this one man. So it just shows, like, how powerful he is over them, that they come trembling, falling to the floor when they see him. [00:17:01] Speaker B: And I think in such a kind of weird and kind of scary story, that is such a comfort. [00:17:07] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. [00:17:08] Speaker A: Because they're even calling Jesus. What does it say? Jesus, son of the most high God, I beg you, do not torment. I mean, they're calling Jesus son of [00:17:17] Speaker C: the most high God. [00:17:19] Speaker A: That is just astounding to me that that's what they're addressing him as. [00:17:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Can I share a quick story? [00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. [00:17:27] Speaker C: So I. I'm one of those people who. I don't love talking about the demon stories. I would rather just pretend that they weren't real, and I would rather read a different story. They're just kind of creepy, to be honest. I don't love thinking about it. And so I'm going to share a story of something that happened to me a couple years ago. And I actually haven't really talked about it since then because it's not something that I like to talk about. But in studying this and seeing just, like, the peace that this gives that God is powerful over demons, I'm like, why? Like, why am I not. I can share this story. It was a couple years ago, and I had my own encounter where I woke up one night and there's this demonic face standing right over me, like, inches away, like, standing on my bed. And I said something. I don't know what it was, and it backed up and left and was gone. And I thought, huh, that was weird. And I got up and I went to the bathroom and I went back to bed. And the next morning, I'm like, what the. What? Like, did that. Did that happen? [00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker C: And I said to my husband, like, you know, I told. I told him what happened. [00:18:33] Speaker A: This. Dreamed. [00:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:34] Speaker C: And he was like, yeah, I Remember you saying something. He couldn't remember what I said either. He's like, you said something. Whatever it was, I was like. Like that was a weird thing to say. And I just. I realized like that that was the Holy Spirit. Here I was vulnerable. I was sleeping and I wake up and I say something that I have no control over. The Holy Spirit spoke through me to get rid of this thing and then filled me with this just unexplainable peace that phase me. [00:19:06] Speaker A: And I just. [00:19:07] Speaker C: I always thought that if something like that happened to me that I would just be like wrecked. I'd be so scared. But I wasn't. It gave me more confidence in Christ and in the Holy Spirit. It gave me peace because I saw God's power over the demonic forces. And it's easy for us to just be like, that stuff's not real. I don't want to think about it. But like, it is real. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker C: Yeah. But if you're a Christian, we have nothing to fear. You have the Holy Spirit living inside of you and there's no room for other spirits inside of you. And he's. He's there to fight for us and protect us like he did for me, so. And like, we'll see for this guy too. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: I really appreciate you sharing that because I know for me in my life right now, there's a situation that's happening where there's some potential demonic activity with somebody that I am close to. And I've just been filled with a lot of fear. I know, Cheyenne, you and I kind of had been talking of God is in you have the Holy Spirit inside you. You do not need to be fearful. And so then I just thought, that's happening. And then we're having this passage where it's talking about Jesus, you know, making this. These demons come out of this man. And it made me think of. Have you guys, do you remember the old hymn A mighty fortress is our God? [00:20:13] Speaker B: I do, but I can't. [00:20:15] Speaker C: It's older. [00:20:17] Speaker A: It's like written by Martin Luther. It's like old language. [00:20:19] Speaker B: Language. Yeah. [00:20:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Okay, remind us in the third verse. I just want to read the verse to you because I think it really is powerful to kind of our story and then what you were just hearing too. But the hymn goes. And though this world with devils filled should threaten to undo us, we will not fear. For God has willed his truth to triumph through us. The prince of darkness grim, we tremble not for him his rage we can endure for lo, his doom is sure One little word shall fell Him. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Wow, I've got goosebumps. [00:20:52] Speaker C: Me too. [00:20:52] Speaker A: That's powerful, isn't it? I mean, that's a song that has been sung by Christians for years and years and years. I mean, it was written by Martin Luther. And so just that reminder of this might be scary, but they're going down. Like, we serve God who is in control, and we don't have to tremble for the demon being scared of the demons. One little word shall fell him just like that in God's. [00:21:18] Speaker C: There's so much peace and hope and assurance in that song, in this passage and what we have in Christ, it's amazing. Like, we really have nothing to fear. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So when it comes to. I mean, we could do. You could do a whole. A whole long thing on, like, demonology. [00:21:37] Speaker A: And it's a lot of questions. [00:21:38] Speaker B: There's a lot of questions. But I think one thing that's important and relevant to this passage, that we won't spend a lot of time on it, but just to recognize is that demon possession, like, what we see in. In this is only possible for someone who does not belong to Christ yet. [00:21:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:54] Speaker B: So if you belong to Christ, if you're a believer, if you've accepted the gospel, you've said that I'm a sinner and in need of a savior and trusted Jesus as your savior, you cannot be demon possessed. It cannot possess and control you. There is demonic oppression that we still do endure as believers. And I think sometimes, at least in west, in the modern west in America, that Satan's tactics are to blind us to that, to his influence and his control. [00:22:26] Speaker C: Yeah. What would you say it usually looks like today more than these encounters? [00:22:30] Speaker B: I mean, consumerism, I think entertainment, I. [00:22:35] Speaker A: I think even some mental illness. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Mental illnesses. Oh, that's a really good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was. Okay, side story real quick. My husband and I went to the theater in Detroit, the Fox Theater in Detroit last year to see Jim Gaffigan the comedian. And do you know Jim Kapkin is. Yeah, okay. That's okay. Anyways, and as I'm sitting in this, like, theater, it's beautiful, like gold everywhere. And there is like, there are idols everywhere. I mean, it's like, oh, I've been [00:23:10] Speaker A: there and I haven't picked up on that. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And I just started getting this, like, creepy feeling of like, oh, gosh, how much entertainment of. In, like, this theater is actually really just worship of, I mean, Satan and his values. And, like, it just kind of. I don't know, in that moment, it kind of opened my eyes a little bit to how much consumerism and entertainment. Just like there's. There's so much money thrown at it. There's so much. I mean, also mental health that I think some of it causes mental health issues. I don't know. It was just like a. Yeah. I don't know. [00:23:46] Speaker C: I think a lot of spiritual warfare comes through distraction. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:50] Speaker C: Satan wants to distract us from. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:52] Speaker C: Being focused on God and instead focus on our own situation, our own problems, the people in the world around us. That's usually a lot more successful for him than these big showy things. And I know that the book, the Screwtape Letters. Have you guys Read that? By C.S. lewis? Such a good book. And I know that that book talks about it quite a bit. I can't think of a specific quote right now, but that is a really good resource for anybody looking for. It's such a great book. [00:24:18] Speaker B: So I think there's like demonic activity and then there is demonic oppression still with, like a really good example, Steph, of talking about mental health issues. Not that mental health issues are always only spiritual. That is not what we're saying. Like, there is. You know, you should seek a doctor. [00:24:33] Speaker A: You should seek chemical imbalances in the nursing school. You know, there's. [00:24:38] Speaker B: I would bet that rarely is there not some kind of spiritual aspect to it, too. So I was going to ask you, Ali, do you. Do you think that seeing the demonic like this, having this encounter, do you think that that was Satan trying to intimidate you? Or do you think that was God trying to, like, unveil, like kind of lift a veil for you and help you to see? Or are you still wrestling with it? I don't know. [00:25:02] Speaker C: Can it be both? [00:25:03] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:25:04] Speaker C: Maybe because God uses all things for his glory and I mean, see that in Job. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:09] Speaker A: There's multiple forces at work. [00:25:11] Speaker C: Yeah. If it was an intimidation thing, it didn't really work. That's amazing. [00:25:16] Speaker B: It didn't. [00:25:16] Speaker C: Like, it just gave me more peace. Just. Yeah. Seeing God come through. Yeah. [00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so we'll get back to our story, but from all of this, like, it is important for us to know the authority that Jesus has and that we don't have to be afraid, that we don't have to fear being demon possessed. Like this man here. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So Jesus commands the demons come out of the man. They enter the pigs. The pigs go down the steep bank. They're in the lake and they drowned. And then what happens in verse 34? [00:25:43] Speaker B: Well, can we back up real fast? Because I'm sorry, there's one more thing that's confusing. Right? It says they begged him not to command them to depart into the abyss. And I was like, yeah, what's that about? What are we talking about here? Like, can they go to the abyss early? Can we send. Can we, like, can we send them to the abyss? [00:25:59] Speaker C: Can you tell us first what the abyss is for anybody who may not know? [00:26:02] Speaker B: Okay, so I believe the interpretation of the abyss would be like the Lake of Fire, like the ultimate judgment place. Judgment place for. I mean, which is hell, right? [00:26:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:14] Speaker B: So. And it's. What I was reading from John Piper was that It's. It's probably. They're thinking like, no, it's not Judgment Day yet. Right. Like, I still. I don't. Please don't end, like, don't send us. [00:26:27] Speaker C: Don't send me. [00:26:29] Speaker B: It's not time yet. Yeah, so that's. I mean, a very small, short little. [00:26:34] Speaker C: And it wasn't time yet. It wasn't time yet for Jesus to. Yeah, right. [00:26:39] Speaker B: So, okay, now we can continue to verse. [00:26:41] Speaker A: That's really helpful. Thanks for backing up. [00:26:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, so should I just go ahead and read. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah, the rest of it. [00:26:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker B: So, you know, there's this herd of pigs, which must have been a pretty large herd of pigs. Um, so understandably, verse 34. When the herdsmen saw what had happened, they fled and told it in the city and in the country. Then the people went out to see what had happened, and they came to Jesus and found the man from whom the demons had gone sitting at the feet of Jesus. Listen to this, you guys, I love this. Clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid. And those who had seen it told them how the demon possessed man had been healed. Then all the people of the surrounding country of the garrisons asked him to depart from them, for they were seized with great fear. So he got into the boat and returned. The man from whom the demons had gone begged that he might be with him. But Jesus sent him away saying, return to your home and declare how much God has done for you. And he went away proclaiming throughout the whole city how much Jesus had done. Done for him. [00:27:40] Speaker C: You know what strikes me when you read that just now? I. The fact that the people were afraid that this man had been healed and is clothed in his right mind. Like they were so used to him just being violent and kind of crazy, and now they see him totally fine and healed, and they have a bad response to that. Yeah, I don't know if that is a Reflection on their priorities, which is like, maybe their possessions, their pigs over the life of this man. Or if they just realize, like, this guy has a lot of power and they're afraid of his power. I just feel like I would have. I don't know. I always sometimes read the Bible and think I would have a different response. I'm sure I would have been, like, wanting to follow Jesus then. But it's interesting to me that they just want him gone after, like, doing something good. [00:28:32] Speaker B: It is interesting. Yeah. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting, the fear, too. Cause, like, they just got done on the boat and the disciples were afraid of the storm. And then they were afraid because they realized Jesus is not just a man, he's God. Then we see the demon being feared of. Don't send me into the abyss. And then now we see the fear of the people, of the response of what Jesus did. The only person who's not afraid is Jesus. And the man after he's been, like, freed of the demons. Right. [00:29:00] Speaker C: He's sitting at his feet. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Sitting at his feet. [00:29:02] Speaker C: Which sounds comfortable. [00:29:04] Speaker B: He sounds comfortable. And he sounds like he's in a position of submission to Jesus and been learning from him. And so I just wonder what that time with Jesus was like. Like what Jesus was sharing with him and how Jesus was, you know, telling him a new. Giving him a new identity. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And a new life. [00:29:25] Speaker B: And a new, completely new life. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's beautiful the way that clothing in this, like, clothing in this story is so symbolic of life before Christ and life after Christ. [00:29:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:39] Speaker B: So. [00:29:39] Speaker A: Well, to see his transformation, too. Right. Like you just said, he went from naked to clothed, but he also went from living among the tombs and dead people to now it says going and proclaiming in a city, being around people. And it went from, like, being demon oppressed all of a sudden and like, being bound in chains to now being clothed and sitting and peaceful. Like you were saying, too. Like, this transformation is in every aspect of its life. It's not just him being thankful that it's not dem. I think you can see there's a lot more going on in this man's heart and in his mind than that. [00:30:12] Speaker B: I just, like, think of the part where he. Okay, it says, first we had the demons begging Jesus to leave them alone. Right. But then now we have the man from whom the demons had gone, begged Jesus that he might be with him, that Jesus would take him with him in the boat, you know, And I just think of that, like, bittersweetness of, like, you just changed My life. Like, if you think about meeting, I don't know, meeting someone that, like, has had a huge impact on your life, and then the time being so short and it being kind of just this bittersweet of, like, deep gratitude for their influence, but sadness of, like, don't leave me. I'm not ready. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:52] Speaker B: Don't you think that's probably where he was, what he was feeling? And I think sometimes we all. I. I have felt that in ministry of, like, you know, my mentor moves away, and I'm like, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready yet. I can't fill your shoes. I can't. I can't do that. [00:31:08] Speaker C: Can I come with you? [00:31:09] Speaker B: I know, yeah. Like, please take me with you. And just Jesus's confidence to be like, return to your home and declare how much God has done for you. And then he does, you know, And I think that is an encouragement to me, too, of like, I. I might feel unqualified. I might be unqualified. I might not have the reputation that people expect me to have in order to speak with authority. But that doesn't matter, you know, that. That we can speak with authority because Jesus has given us authority to speak on his behalf and to share the word of the Lord and a testimony of what he's done for us. And so we don't have to, like, put a, you know, a laundry list in our mind. We don't have to listen to that laundry list in our minds of why we shouldn't proclaim what he's done for us. [00:31:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:59] Speaker A: I think that's such a sweet encouragement. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:01] Speaker A: What about you, Ali? Do you have, like, something that encouraged you or challenged you as you were studying? [00:32:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I just. Going back to the idea that this man was just vulnerable before he met Jesus and now he's not. Jesus has covered that vulnerability. He's literally clothed, and now he is covered in the spirit, too. He's. It sounds like he believes in Christ now and he's following him. So he is, like, free from the demonic oppression now. Like, they can't come back into him because he has the spirit with him now. And now he's equipped to go and live out this mission that Jesus gave him. He's got new purpose. He's got. He's got new meaning to tell people about what God has done for him. And I think it can be easy. Like, if you're like me, you might want to look at the story and be like, okay, so this represents my sin. And it does. Like, we Talked about that a little bit already. It's okay to just be like, this represents my sin and my vulnerability and my need for a Savior. We can look at his story as a symbol of that, our need for a Savior. And I think that's good. But I also don't think that we should be quick to just dismiss the demonic part of this. We do need to just. I mean, be aware of spiritual warfare. It is real, it is around us. But also, we do not have to fear. And if I consent anyone away with anything today, it's just that we don't have to be afraid. There is peace and there is hope, and we have assurance in Christ. And if you are in Christ, there is, like, you are safe. And so that's. That was the big takeaway for me this week. Yeah, I know. [00:33:41] Speaker A: For me, I was really challenged when I was looking at all of the things that were. That was asked of Jesus in this passage and how they were answered. Right? So, like, the demon is asking Jesus, don't just, like, kill us. Like, send us into the pigs. And the demons get what they want. Want, right? And then the townspeople are asking Jesus, go away from us. We don't want you here. And Jesus ends up leaving. So they get what they want. But the demon possessed man, his ask is that, can I go with you? And Jesus says, no. [00:34:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:13] Speaker C: Wow. [00:34:13] Speaker A: And I'm just like that to me and my human perspective is the ask that Jesus should have said yes. [00:34:20] Speaker C: Like, he deserves to be able to go with, [00:34:26] Speaker B: why would she not want him? Yeah. [00:34:28] Speaker A: And I just was really wrestling with that because I think there's so many times in my life where I look and I'm like, what I'm asking God is a really good thing. This makes the most sense in my mind, even for the kingdom. Like, I want a relationship with you. Like, I want this thing. And sometimes God says yes, but often, too, to me, he says, no, I have something else for you. And that's really hard. And so I just. That part of this story really just hit me as I was reading through this. And why Jesus said no, I thought was just so beautiful in verse 39, because he says, return to your home and declare how much God has done for you. And he went proclaiming to the whole city how much Jesus had done for him. And that right there, I think is so subtle, but we can miss that. Jesus says, go, say what God has done. And this man goes and says what Jesus has done, because Jesus is God, and I. [00:35:24] Speaker B: It's his theology and is right There. [00:35:28] Speaker A: And because of his encounter with Jesus, if he would have left to go follow Jesus, all of the people in the city that he was meant to proclaim to wouldn't have heard the gospel. [00:35:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:35:40] Speaker B: They would have still seen Jesus as an enemy. [00:35:42] Speaker A: They would have. They would have been scared and he would have been known as the man that killed all of our pigs. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Right. And they took the demon possessed man with him. [00:35:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:49] Speaker B: You know. [00:35:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker A: But instead he's actually like asked to do a really hard thing to stay put into every day. Proclaim what Jesus has done for you. And that's the same thing we're called to do. Right. Like every day where God has us, we're just asked to proclaim what Jesus has done for you. [00:36:07] Speaker B: And that's, I mean, so true. Because what else did Jesus do in this town? [00:36:13] Speaker C: Nothing. He left nothing. [00:36:15] Speaker A: You asked that question. I'm like, oh my goodness, I don't know the answer. [00:36:17] Speaker B: But yeah, nothing. Nothing. He came all the way through that stone, all the way across the sea for just that man. And so like he chose the demon possessed man to do this work. That's incredible. It is. That's incredible. [00:36:32] Speaker C: That makes me like, I have goosebumps again. I know another example of how he doesn't call the equipped. No, not at all. [00:36:39] Speaker B: No. [00:36:39] Speaker C: He equips the called. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Who we would normally be like, oh, their reputation is too far gone for them to be worthwhile to the kingdom. Like start with someone else. And that's not how he works, you know, in his upside down kingdom. That's just not how he works. So that is a beautiful thing. Do you have anything else? Because I think that's a beautiful thing to end on. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Not unless we want to give homework. Do we want to give homework? [00:37:04] Speaker C: Do you have some. [00:37:04] Speaker A: The homework Queen. I have that. [00:37:07] Speaker B: You've got homework. So I didn't plan any. So. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Okay, so this taking the story of kind of what we've been talking through these last episodes about clothing. I wonder. I wanna challenge you, listener, to just try to write the gospel truth of what Jesus has done for you through the lens of clothing. Cause you've kind of seen us try to like show this thread of clothing throughout and what it. There's the parallels for scripture. I think I just wanna challenge, like try. Just, just try. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:35] Speaker A: You don't have to show anybody. You can like tag us on social media if you wanna share. We'd be encouraged by that. [00:37:39] Speaker C: But yeah, we would. [00:37:40] Speaker A: But just for you and your personal. What has Jesus done for you through the lens of clothing. [00:37:44] Speaker B: That's perfect. Thanks, Steph. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Hey, thanks for listening to another episode of Gospel Threads.